Michelle Malkin points out that a so-called “right-wing” terrorist drug-dealing group shares nothing in common with the conservatives in the US. Worth noting. (link)
As Reagan would say, it’s not a question of left versus right. It’s up versus down. Up towards individual liberty, limited government, prosperity for all, or down back to oppressive governments and brutal dictatorships.
June 22, 2008 at 8:25 am |
I’m amazed that you don’t see the incredible irony in this, especially with what you were saying in the past about Pinochet.
I mean, of course, that the shoe is on the other foot. I’ve been reading for months that liberals are “responsible for Zimbabwe”, that liberals are communists, that all Democrats support Chavez, and so forth. To take those statements, and then suggest that conservatives have no connection with groups that are used to enforce ideas related to conservatism in South America, is bull. It seems like right-wingers are only against bad behavior and oppressive dictatorships until they’re not.
I mean, Malkin writes:
So I was wondering: are they more Russell Kirk types, or Straussians? Maybe they’re more Hayekian Road-to-Serfdom thinkers. Or…maybe they’re theo-cons? Don’t a lot of the AUC’s libraries subscribe to World magazine?
Typical smarmy commentary from quite a mean-spirited blogger, but completely ludicrous. Does this mean that thugs often declared to be on the left are Keynesian economists? Do they read Agamben or Arendt? Do they look at people like Olof Palme or Tommy Douglas as examples of successful social democratic movements?
If you’re keen on lumping people on the “left” together, regardless of their individual philosophies, then I’m sorry… what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. To ignore, downplay, or justify the crimes committed on behalf of furthering some kind of broad “right-wing” agenda in this case is pretty laughable when you apply exactly the same standards to the left.
June 25, 2008 at 10:25 am |
That’s the point, this group doesn’t share anything with us.
We believe in less government, self-rule, and the rights to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. We also believe that people should defend themselves, carry their own arms, and be ready to fight when called upon. I doubt these people would like to see the people well-armed and ready to fight against them, and I doubt they would like the people establishing a government that opposes them.
We share nothing with these people. We don’t even hate the people they hate. We hate no person. We only hate ideologies and philosophies that destroy the rights of men.
June 25, 2008 at 2:43 pm |
Wow… that’s brilliant! So that means that you’re going to stop calling Democrats “communists”, I’d imagine? Or are these rules only applicable when your side is playing?
June 25, 2008 at 3:14 pm |
Sure, as soon as democrats stop advocating communism.
June 25, 2008 at 9:27 pm |
Then I guess that I’ll have to start calling Republicans “Fascists” again! The hyper-nationalist attitude, the call for tightened control over civil liberties, the idealization of the military at the expense of all else, the breaking of unions. There are a few dissimilarities, of course, but it’s a better fit than calling Democrats “Communists”.
And no, I’m not convinced of Jonah Goldberg’s arguments about “liberal fascism”.
June 26, 2008 at 10:09 pm |
Quick: Name one issue where the Republican Party agrees with Mussolini or Hitler. You can’t, except the invented issues you pretend we believe in.
The difference is up and down. We believe in limited government. We believe in self-rule. We believe that governments are created by men to serve men and exist within the limits men place upon them. We believe our rights come from God and are inalienable.
I can name several issues that democrats agree with Hitler and Mussolini on. State control of industry. Banishment of free political speech and the right to assemble. Banishment of the right to bear arms. Banishment of the right to petition government. Arbitrary interpretation of laws and constitutions. The subservience of the people to the state. These are all things that both Hitler, Mussolini and the Democratic Party believe in.
In fact, it is quite clear that the modern democratic party has its roots in the philosophies of Hitler and Mussolini, as well as the philosophies of Stalin and Lenin. See, they all believed government was the answer to all of society’s problems. They never trusted the people to govern themselves. They wanted more power, not less.
June 27, 2008 at 12:53 pm |
Let’s see…
State control of industry. Aside from some flippant remark about oil refining, the Democrats haven’t nationalized anything. In fact… which party was the last to nationalize an industry? The Republicans! Nationalization of airport security.
Banishment of free political speech and the right to assemble. Free speech zones for Bush protests aside, eh?
Banishment of the right to bear arms. Even in the Constitution, there is mention of a “well-regulated” militia, which means that the government has a right to control the sale and terms of ownership of certain weapons. And the 2004 Democratic Party platform states:
“We will protect Americans’ Second Amendment right to own firearms, and we will keep
guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do.”
Of course, the Republicans seem more keen on protecting the rights of gun owners to buy military hardware than reasonable regulation to ensure that people that shouldn’t have guns don’t have them.
Banishment of the right to petition government. Really? I’m very interested in how you managed to get that one.
Arbitrary interpretation of laws and constitutions. Again, I’m assuming that by this, you aren’t referring to creative interpretations of executive power.
The subservience of the people to the state. Only the most diehard of conspiracy theorists could assume that Democratic policies reflect a subservience of the people to the state. I don’t know exactly what rank-and-file Democrats think, but as a liberal, I don’t give a crap about what you do, just that if there are common elements of national infrastructure that need to be maintained, that we all pitch in to help out, and that help is proportional to the marginal utility of money for each of us.
In fact, while you may claim that the Democrats preach “economic subservience” to the state, one can make an equally valid claim that the Republicans preach a “social subservience” to the state.
These are all things that both Hitler, Mussolini and the Democratic Party believe in.
Hardly. Jonah Goldberg made a lot of money from foisting that lie on conservatives.
June 27, 2008 at 4:13 pm |
Quick: Name one issue where the Republican Party agrees with Mussolini or Hitler.
I’ll name 10:
Immigration needs to be restricted
War is the desired vehicle for foreign relations
The good of corporations is the good of the nation
Pacifism and a focus on human rights is weakness
People’s morality must be dictated by the government
Homosexuality is aberrant behavior
Labor unions are a threat if not in line with the corporatist state
Communism is a grave threat to mankind
The leader of the nation cannot be questioned about war
Multiculturalism is a danger to national purity
Last time I did this, you ignored my comment. I’m sure you’ll do the same again.
July 1, 2008 at 9:45 am |
On the contrary, conservatives are quite welcoming of immigration, want more of it, and would like the cream of the crop to live in the US. What we don’t appreciate are people who flagrantly violate our laws, or a system that rewards those who break the law and punish those who try to keep the law.
On the contrary, conservatives have been extremely effective at preventing wars. Look at all the major catastrophic wars we have been involved in in the 20th centuries, and you will find at their heart was a liberal who refused to stand up for America against her enemies when they were weak. The War in Iraq and the War on Terror are no different. We wouldn’t have needed such a thing if Clinton were spending more time hunting our enemies and less time under the desk of the oval office.
Fascists didn’t believe this. They believed that corporations were the servants of the nation, an extension of their political power, to be used to keep the people in check.
But yes, we believe corporations, which are creations by the people for the people are good for the people.
There is a significant yet subtle difference. We believe in punishing people for their crimes against other people and society. Fascists believe in changing the way people behave through laws and enforcement. If you can’t detect the difference, you should spend some time thinking about it. One is government-centered. The other is people-centered.
Everybody but the most degenerate believe this.
Conservatives don’t believe this. We believe that lawlessness is bad, and that unions are perfectly fine as long as they don’t use threats and violence to further their ends.
Fascists were socialists at heart. They may have hated communism but only because it was a competitor. We hate communism because it hates people.
This is absurd.
This is also absurd.
And when has America ever been “pure”? America is a concept, not a chunk of land and not a group of people. I think our Founding Fathers did a good job explaining that, and the conservatives today continue that tradition by trying to keeping the institutions of America—her devotion to freedom, liberty, self-rule, and self-sufficiency, the family—alive.
Please note that the KKK was a democratic party institution, started in the south to protest the efforts of the republicans to integrate and normalize the black people as American people. The conservatives are not the ones to blame for our bloody and racist past.
July 1, 2008 at 9:13 pm |
Please note that the KKK was a democratic party institution, started in the south to protest the efforts of the republicans to integrate and normalize the black people as American people. The conservatives are not the ones to blame for our bloody and racist past.
That’s a nice sentiment, but the Democrats purged the racist elements from the party in the 1960s. Assuming that Democrats can be blamed for the KKK today is akin to stating that the Democrats and Republicans are currently split on whether to adopt the gold or the silver standard…
July 6, 2008 at 1:54 pm |
Jonathan, you are interchanging the terms conservative and Republican. They are not the same.
A few points:
Republicans do believe immigration needs to be restricted. That’s why they oppose allowing unlimited numbers of people to come here from Mexico to work.
Your willingness to blame our current wars on Clinton is historically inaccurate. Clinton did take action against foreign threats, but had the sense not to start unnecessary wars, as Bush did against Iraq in 2003. The fact that Republicans nearly universally supported this war is a very solid example of how modern-day Republicans have some significant overlap with fascist foreign policy thinking.
You probably need to do a little more research into how the original Italian fascist movement basically allowed for corporations and the wealthy to do as they pleased, so that they could exercise control over other aspects of society.
You have argued in the past that it is the government’s job to control what kinds of drugs people take and who they can and can’t have sex with. You have advocated for adultery being punished by death. If that’s not trying to dictate morality through government, I don’t know what is.
No, believing that homosexuality is aberrant behavior is not a common belief. Most conservatives do not believe that, only a narrow fringe of radicals believe that (especially in Islamic countries).
Republicans are most certainly in opposition to labor unions. A number of corporations (run by Republicans and supported by Republican politicians) actively prevent their workforces from organizing.
There are some differences between why fascists hated Communism and why Republicans hated Communism, but it is incorrect to say that fascists were socialists at heart. Their outlook was not one based on an economic theory.
What’s absurd about pointing out that both Republicans and fascists believe that citizens should not question a leader in a time of war?
What’s absurd about pointing out that both Republicans and fascists believe that multiculturalism is a threat?
You can say all you want about how the KKK started among Democrats, but that doesn’t change the fact that the people who believe those things today are pandered to by Republicans. Our founding fathers absolutely were conservatives, but they’d also be appalled at how willing the Republicans who are running the country now have conducted their foreign policy, and how little respect they have for the principles of separating church and state. These were the two main thrusts of fascism and they are found deeply rooted in today’s Republican Party.
July 8, 2008 at 3:52 pm |
Apparently not, with patrons like Jeremiah Wright and Jesse Jackson running around.
And yes, I blame the Democrats for the KKK since they are the ones that founded it and perpetuated it, just like I blame the Emancipation Proclamation on Lincoln and the Republican Party.
July 8, 2008 at 4:12 pm |
We can argue about whether the war was unnecessary, but I am sure the Iraqis are all in agreement now that it was necessary to depose a tyrant and butcher.
The fact is that when Iraq violated the terms of their surrender, Clinton did nothing, just like Britain and France sat on their hands while Germany rearmed and invaded their neighbors.
Which is interesting, since ever since President Bush came to power there have been more scandals at the highest levels of the economy prosecuted than under Clinton. In fact, Enron was in the making during the Clinton years, while Bush was the one who brought it out in the open and prosecuted it. That makes Clinton the fascist, if you look at the facts.
You really need to get out more. The vast majority of Americans don’t believe there is anything normal about homosexuality.
Yes, because the labor unions republicans oppose are corrupt and Republicans oppose corruption, even among their own ranks. The rest we don’t care about, and we leave free to pursue their agenda as long as they aren’t trying to destroy privacy at the ballot box or bolster their numbers through violence and intimidation, which democrats are all too happy to allow.
Because no republican believes that, certainly not our candidate, John McCain, who questioned President Bush regularly, privately and publicly. We question those who are actively supporting our enemies and fighting against America, such as the New York Times who regularly publishes state secrets that hurt our war effort and soldiers and help our enemies.
Because republicans don’t believe that multiculturalism is a threat. We are fine with many different cultures living side-by-side in the US.
I married a Korean national, I eat kimchi and speak Korean and take off my shoes in my home, and you know what? I haven’t heard a peep of discouragement from any republican.
What we are concerned about is people who come into our country and are trying to overthrow our institutions, like Mexicans who enter our country illegally and work with La Raza to introduce a curriculum in our schools that teach that the white man is evil and stole the land from Mexico and that the US government must be overthrown.
We are also concerned about people who live in our country and don’t take the time to learn how to be a full citizen, or who don’t exercise their rights as citizens to enjoy the full blessings of liberty, and thus squander their inheritance and put future generation’s freedom in jeopardy. Part of being a citizen is becoming active in politics, and part of that is speaking the language of politics, law, and the federal government and so we strongly encourage everyone everywhere to learn English.
We are also concerned that our population may become fractured, with people from one ethnic group identifying first with that ethnic group and second as American. We are all Americans first, and we should treat each other as brothers and never let artificial barriers such as race, heritage, language, or skin color separate us.