Archive for October, 2012

Atheists Horribly Misinformed (No Surprise)

October 23, 2012

Atheists are launching a new media campaign against Mormons. This time, they are supposing we practice some bizarre form of segregation based on one’s sexual orientation or skin color. (link)

As I posted earlier, if there is a faith that is chock full of contradiction and misinformation, it is the Atheist one. Here they are showing their ignorance, almost proudly.

Let me defend my faith with two simple observations: The Mormon Church has always welcomed blacks, and the Mormon church has always welcomed homosexuals.

For the record, we accept anyone from any background into our faith. It is contrary to our doctrine to deny anyone access to the Lord’s blessings based on anything but their worthiness. For the dead, we don’t even care about their worthiness.

On the history of black relations with our church, I propose two points. One, that we never taught that blacks would not receive the highest levels of salvation. In fact, our religion was the first in modern history to point out that all the blacks who died without knowing Christ would have an opportunity to join all the faithful Saints in heaven. Two, Joseph Smith’s Nauvoo city was part of the underground railroad, helping runaway slaves in material ways. It doesn’t take much effort to find stories of Joseph Smith offering his own bed, his money, his property, to help black people in Nauvoo.

Joseph Smith’s ideas about the black people, that they were no different from whites, was truly radical in his time. It is still a truly radical concept for many.

As for the ban on the priesthood, when it was instituted, it was understood to be temporary, and at the same time, it would not limit any black person’s ability to progress and receive the saving ordinances and be exalted along with the whites. Similar bans on the priesthood are recorded in the Bible, such as limiting who is allowed to officiate in the temple, etc…

On the topic of homosexuality, we do not discriminate. Sexual relations outside of marriage is a sin, no matter the sexes of those involved. To those who have proclivities to violate themselves in such a way, they must follow God’s counsel to cross themselves, to learn to tame their flesh. We believe that Jesus Christ can help people overcome their sins, not just by paying the price for their sins so they need not suffer the consequences, but to change their hearts so that they no longer want to sin. Given that fact, we do not consider homosexuals to be any different from us. We are a all sinners, and all of us need that change of heart to turn us into new people, reborn through Christ, whose hearts have no desire to sin but to do what God wants all the time. In fact, we teach that the smallest sin will keep one out of heaven, along with the greatest sin. Murderers and paperclip thieves are grouped together, along with liars and adulterers and every other form of sinner.

It is apparent that this ad campaign is intended to deceive people into believing that which is not true. Is it any wonder that this deception comes from the Atheists? Here we have a “religion” whose primary deception is found in their first article of faith: God does not exist. How can they know it? The simple fact is that it is impossible to disprove the existence of something, let alone the existence of a supernatural being. That does not stop them from trying, for they assume, illogically, that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence. When confronted with this fact, they squirm and suppose a different idea altogether: That those who have personally come to know God and Christ are liars or mentally sick, even though both are easily verifiable and provably false in many cases. (Yes, some Christians are liars, and others are mentally ill. But that is certainly not true for all of them.)

This charge of discriminatory practices is hardly comparable to the charges that we have horns in our head, that we steal babies, that we steal young women, that we eat human flesh, or that we are plotting to overthrow the world’s governments. We are well familiar with blood libel, as well as the effects of it, which occasionally results in murder. We watched people come into our communities, rape and murder us, steal our property, throw us off of our land, deny us the right to vote or a fair trial, hold us indefinitely on false charges, or do all manner of vicious things, often in the name of righteousness or justice. Let the Atheists cast their lots with the mobs that tried to destroy our religion from the beginning. At least we know the end of their efforts, because we have seen it time and again.

The way we counter these charges is to live our lives honestly and without fear. Let’s tell people what we really believe. Let’s let them see into our homes and personal lives. Let’s be a light to this world as we always have been.

What the Temple Means

October 21, 2012

Now that Romney is just about to be elected president, several anti-Mormon videos are sweeping the internets. Among them are likely videos that reveal what happens in our most sacred temple ordinances.

Feel free to watch them. Understand the level of dishonesty that was required to obtain them, however. Someone must have been a member of the church in good standing for at least a year. They must have made sacred covenants with God to keep his commandments. They must have lied to several people about their intentions. They must have violated basic rules to not film or reveal key portions of the ceremony. Finally, during the ceremony, they swore an oath to God that they would not reveal certain tokens or signs. And yet, here we are.

If you want to trust such a person to accurately portray mormonism, then you are free to do so. However, to me, such a dishonest person has no reason to be trusted at all. Why would anyone trust someone who takes oaths before God so lightly, or who is willing to deceive so many people?

Regardless, I am going to share with you the “gory” details about what goes on in Mormon temples. I feel now is just as an appropriate time as any.

To put things in perspective, you have to understand how Mormons view the universe.

First, there is a God. He is our loving Father in Heaven. His primary purpose is to prepare us to receive eternal life. Nothing is more important for him.

He provided for us a Savior, Jesus Christ. Under the direction of Jesus Christ, the world was created, and man was place on it. Adam and Eve ate the fruit, and brought sin and death into the world.

However, this was anticipated from the beginning. The very purpose of life is to experience sin and death in this mortal realm. Having experienced that, we are to repent and obey Jesus Christ, who will show us how to get out of the mess we have created for ourselves. Our obedience to Jesus Christ is that we sacrifice ourselves to show love to each other. It is that we feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, tend to the sick, and help the sinner and comfort those who stand in need of comfort. This is pretty much the entirety of what we are asked to do, in addition to inward actions such as trusting Jesus and repenting of our sins.

As tokens or signs of our willingness to follow Jesus, we accept the ordinance of baptism. This symbolically washes us from our sins, and symbolically represents a rebirth in God’s kingdom. Then we receive the ordinance of the laying on of hands for the Gift of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost can be our constant companion, helping us know what we should do to follow Jesus’s example on the earth. These are two saving ordinances, meaning, we cannot return to Heavenly Father without receiving them.

The problem is that so many people lived on earth but never received baptism. Many of them never even had a chance to receive baptism. So Jesus provided a way for all those hosts of the dead to be on equal footing with the most righteous of saints. We can be baptized in their behalf in our temples. We can offer them the ordinance of baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost, which they are free to receive if they so desire.

Since we believe that free will pre-dates our mortality and exists in eternal realms, then we believe that people can change their minds after death. Even the most hard-hearted and wicked people on the earth can come to accept Jesus Christ as their savior and desire to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Our job is not to try and figure out who was righteous enough or not, but to see to it that everyone has an equal chance to get to heaven.

These are the first of the saving ordinances. There are more. The temple ordinance of the initiatory includes a symbolic washing and anointing of the body. This is to sanctify our bodies and set them apart for the work of salvation. It is a symbolic preparation for our future roles as kings, queens, priests, and priestesses.

Then there is the endowment, the film you have likely seen. Here, we are taught what we already have been taught, the gospel plan. We are reminded where we came from, why we are here, and what we are to do. The sacred oaths we take are promises to obey the Law of Sacrifice, the Law of the Gospel, the Law of Chastity, and the Law of Consecration. In exchange for our individual willingness to obey these commandments, we are given tokens that we can use to show Jesus that we have done what we were required to do. We are not to share these tokens with others: They must produce the faith necessary to obey these covenants on their own.

Having the tokens, we are then able to symbolically enter the Lord’s presence in the Celestial Room. This is a symbol for what we can have if we decide to keep the covenants we have just made.

There is also the ceremony of the sealing. This ceremony serves one purpose: To bind families together eternally. Man and woman are joined into married couples, and children are sealed to their parents. Were it not so, we are told, the whole earth would be smitten with a curse. This ceremony reminds us that while we can individually keep the law of the gospel, it is pointless to be saved alone. Only with our families can we hope to have any measure of eternal happiness.

There are rumored to be other ceremonies, each another symbol. I do not know much about them at this time. I am told that one symbolically represents our unity with Christ, another symbolically represents that we have proven ourselves completely worthy of exaltation. That is all I have heard.

Now, some people see members of the LDS church making covenants and think we are doing something wrong. Let me ask you what you think.

The Law of Sacrifice teaches us that if we want something, we have to pay for it. It teaches us that Christ paid the ultimate price, and if we are willing to receive him into our lives, we can have our sins paid for.

The Law of the Gospel teaches us not to take important things lightly, to treat people with respect, etc…

The Law of Chastity teaches us to be faithful to our spouses, to direct our lusts to building up families.

The Law of Consecration teaches us to sacrifice everything we have to build up the kingdom of God. What is the kingdom of God? That’s the things that God does. What does he do? He does everything he can to elevate people. That’s what we should be doing. The purpose of the church is not church, after all. It is to bring people to Christ, to help them experience the joy and lasting happiness that only Christ can bring us.

I do not see any evil here. I do not know why people try to pretend we are part of some grand conspiracy. If it helps you understand, then yes, I am a part of that conspiracy too. I want nothing more than to absolve you of all guilt and shame, to bring you the same happiness I have. The worst part? I plan on bringing you these things without violating one iota of your free will, or using any compulsion whatsoever. I know, evil, right?

The church has been targeted since day one. We have always had our enemies. That’s the territory we are in. When you make it your life’s mission to overthrow the kingdom of the devil, the devil doesn’t go on vacation.

I feel sorry for people who, seeing something of such immense good in the world, decide the best course of action is to exaggerate and misrepresent our church. I feel especially sorry when people listen to them. Nevertheless, I have trusted the church to the Lord. I don’t intend to lift one finger to hurt these people, except to tell them they are wrong and help bring more truth in the world.

The sad part is that the Lord pays attention to these people, and it never ends well for them. When his patience runs out, or rather, when it becomes clear that they will not repent, he tends to clean up the mess they made and move on with the world. To understand what I mean, name one person who lifted their hand against our church and prospered for it. It simply doesn’t work out that way for them. Every single time our church has had a trial in the court of public opinion, our church has eventually won the day.

Anyway, if you want to learn what our church really believes, we send out 50,000+ missionaries every two years to knock on your door and tell you about it. I want nothing more than for you to experience the temple ordinances for yourself, in the proper state of mind, so you can see and hear and feel what I have seen and heard and felt.

Romney’s Knock-Out Punches

October 17, 2012

If the presidential debate was a boxing match, then Romney landed quite a few knock-out punches. Obama seemed to put up his guard, and even tried to throw a few punches of his own, but he couldn’t stop the devastating force of Romney’s fury.

The most memorable is Romney’s closing statement. He believes in God. He believes we are all children of that God, and that everyone has a solemn duty to care for one another. After that, he described his missionary service and his service as a pastor, how he cared for and helped the people that he came in contact with in ever walk of life. The message was not so important as the delivery. Here was a sincere man sharing his sincerely held beliefs and his compassion and understanding for every American.

The second most terrible punch was when Romney laid out every failure of the Obama administration. It wasn’t in the spirit of trying to hurt Obama, but in trying to help him understand what has happened to the American people under his presidency. Romney didn’t blame Obama’s motives. He didn’t even blame his competency. He simply said that what he did didn’t work, and it’s time to give something else a try, for the sake of the American people. Every American who has suffered under the Obama presidency felt something, I believe, in that moment. The fact that Candy Crowley didn’t allow Obama to reply probably saved Obama from putting his foot in his mouth. It didn’t matter. There was nothing Obama could say, except, “I’m sorry, I’ll do better next time, if you trust me, which you can’t.”

The third most terrible punch was on Obama’s energy policy. When Romney challenged Obama’s rebuttal that what Romney said was a lie, Obama faltered. He couldn’t answer the question, so he filibustered. Romney gave Obama as much rope as he wanted. When Obama finally realized what had happened, and turned Romney’s time back to Romney, the deed was done.

The question about equality in the workplace for women should have been a gimme for Obama. Instead, Romney got to answer first, and completely obliterated any liberal idea on the topic. One, as governor, he sought out for and hired and accommodated women in the workplace. He remarked that he gave his chief of staff the time she needed to be with her children spoke to the millions of single and married moms in the workplace. Work is not the goal for them: the family is. Too often jobs place work over family, which is why women don’t want to work even if they should. His second point, that a robust economy, where workers are in high demand, does not care about the gender of their employees, and would bend over backwards to make room for women was also heard and understood. Obama’s returning blow was wonkish and weak. Romney’s counter punch was a solid punch landing on a fighter crumpling at the knees.

The first question to Romney gave Romney a chance to unload a series of devastating blows on Obama, one after the other. Obama came out of his corner strong, but from the very beginning, his face was bruised and he was faltering. The mid-way comment about Obama’s economic failure was the point where Obama should’ve turned around, and instead, he feel even further behind.

The question about gas prices and energy policy gave Romney a chance to land several devastating, crushing blows to Obama. The closing remark, asking people whether they are paying more at the pump, more for electricity and heat, more for energy in general, and whether they could afford four more years of that, sealed the deal.

The one faltering blow, Romney’s accusation that Obama didn’t identify the Benghazi terrorist attack as a terrorist attack, didn’t land cleanly at the debate. It even looked like Obama blocked it and countered with a nice sucker punch. While the impression of this to those who watched seemed to be reality, what really happened is now we are going to have a debate about how Obama handled the terrorist attacks under his watch for the next few weeks. Now Obama is going to have to fight the message sweeping America that he is weak and incompetent when it comes to the terror issue. Of course, Romney was right. It took two weeks for Obama to say the attacks were terrorist attacks and not protest rallies about some obscure YouTube video. But that’s going to come out over the next few weeks, and the Americans who plan to vote this year are going to hear it.

This was another disastrous debate for Obama. He is tired. He is repetitive. He has nothing interesting to say. His attacks on Romney were weak and easily defended. At times, he seemed even to parrot Romney. His closing statement was weak. In no case did he try to defend his record. His defenses were either “I didn’t do it, Bush did”, “It’s hard being president”, or “You can’t do any better.” That’s not what Americans want to hear, not now, not ever.

Edit: In terms of devastation to words, this was the phrase that was the most powerful: When talking about how he would be different than President Bush, Romney pointed out that Obama condemned Bush for spending half a trillion dollars over budget. But then Obama doubled it. The audience gasped.

Also, the smoothest counter-punch came when the moderator attacked Romney for flip-flopping on guns while he was governor. Romney’s smooth deflection, that he brought the pro-gun and anti-gun people together, and signed legislation they both agreed to, was brilliant. The counter-punch, that Obama was incapable of doing anything like this, and Romney would resolve the division in DC, was marvelous. It was like watching a master at work. Lots of minds were changed at that moment, I believe.

Notes on the VP Debate

October 12, 2012

Here are some of the thoughts I had as I watched the debate.

Where do they find these women? She isn’t ugly, she’s scary looking. She need to put on some weight. Why does her face look like that? She has that accent that drives me up the wall. Do the liberals know that they’ve built up this image that inspires disgust in others when they hear their accent and see their sunken faces?

Joe Biden makes the first promise they did not keep: protect the American people. We are in more danger today, thanks to Obama’s failed policies, than we were in 2008.

Wherever the facts lead you? It’s too bad the president doesn’t care about the facts, blaming the deaths on free speech rather than Al Qaeda.

This is an empty, shallow promise and threat.

It’s too bad Barack Obama doesn’t agree with Joe Biden. His priority has been to fundamentally transform America, not protect us. Biden then contradicts himself, putting priority on revenge, not security. If the last thing we need is another war, why did Obama entangle us in several new ones, without even consulting congress?

Ryan nails it: It’s a terrorist attack. Why wasn’t there a marine detachment protecting our ambassador — France has one! Ryan calls out Biden for FAILING to get an agreement. It was his job. “Let’s not lose the things we fought so hard to get.” “Let’s not project weakness abroad.” Benghazi is indicative of a larger problem, the unraveling of the Obama policy.

The moderator inserts herself in the first question, wondering whether it was appropriate for Romney to talk about Obama’s failures. Was it appropriate? Why does she think the American people even care about the media’s failed narrative?

Ryan points out that the Obama administration did the same thing (they did.) Biden laughs. Is he nervous? Did he just get called out? “We should’ve spoken right away when the Green Revolution started, when the Mullahs were attacking their people.” WOW! We should not impose the devastating defense cuts.

Biden interrupts, not even 10 minutes into the debate. Cuts off Ryan.

Calls Ryan’s observations “Malarkey”. Didn’t he just say, moments ago, he wants to get to the bottom of the truth? Says EVERYTHING Ryan said was inaccurate. Blames Ryan for cutting embassy security. Blames Gov. Romney for making a political statement before the ambassador was known to be dead. Doesn’t understand why we look weak. Says Obama repaired alliances. Says Obama brought China and Russia together to pressure Iran. Says Ryan bets against America all the time.

Moderator interrupts to change the subject to Libya. What was Biden first told about the attack? Biden blames the intelligence community. There’s an investigation. Claims ignorance about Libyan ambassador wanting more security. Says he wasn’t told, blaming his underlings. Blames their entire answer on the intelligence community. Blames Romney for dividing the country.

Ryan, should the US apologize for burning Korans, urinating on corpses? Ryan says yes. Says we should NOT apologize for standing up for values. We Should NOT say that dictators who hurt their people are good guys. When the commander on the ground says we need more security, we should send more security. This was 9/11 anniversary, we knew Al Qaeda was rising, and we didn’t even think to give our Benghazi security? Moderator interrupts Ryan again.

Iran: Ryan says Iran had the material for four years, we had four different sanctions,3 by Bush, 1 by Obama, watered down by Russia. Mitt Romney wanted sanctions since 2007. Only because we had bi-partisan support we could get sanctions. Iran is stepping up, attacking people throughout the world. Obama is sending out mixed signals. We need to change Ayatollah’s minds with unified, tough stance. Obama waters it down, is not unified. Biden laughs again. Romney will have credibility.

Biden: Could the Republican Congress do sanctions and get the world on board? What you want to go to war (Ryan: Prevent war.) I won’t talk about classified info. Toughest sanctions in history of the world. We know how close the Iranians are to nuclear weapon, we are on the same page as Israel, and they are far away. Talked about fissile material. They need a launch mechanism. What are they talking about? What more can Obama do?

Ryan: Let’s look through the eyes of the Ayatollahs. They see Obama watering down sanctions. They speed up refinement, and Obama doesn’t do anything. They see Obama going on a talk show rather than meeting with Israel. They see the secretary of defense walk back.

Moderator interrupts again: How do you change their mind? Can you solve this?

Ryan: We can debate the timeline. Interrupted couldn’t even answer the question. Points out that we need credibility.

Biden: Ayatollahs see their economy crippled, exports crippled, world united against them. The idea that we don’t talk with Bibi is insane. He talks to Bibi all the time. He knows exactly what is going on. Bunch of “stuff”. Sec. Defense didn’t walk anything back. They don’t have a weapon to put it into! Iran is more isolated today than when we took office. Totally isolated.

Ryan: Thank heavens sanctions in place, despite their opposition, 20 waivers. Biden interrupts, laughs.

Biden: Facts matter. Loose talk. Not true they can get a weapon. The world is behind us.

Ryan: When the Sec. Def. says we can’t go to war, then the administration loses credibility. When they saw the Green Revolution, Obama was silent for 9 days. When they see daulight between Israel and US, they are encouraged.

Mod: Another war in the Middle East?

Ryan: Worst is a nuclear Iran, the biggest sponsor of terrorism (Biden interrupts), they call us the Great Satan, Wipe Israel off the Map. We can’t live with nuclear Iran.

Biden: War is the last option. Crippling sanctions. Calls Romney a flip-flopper. Iran is being crippled. Obama doesn’t bluff.

Economy

Unfortunately, the < 8% unemployment was a lie.

Can you get to under 6%? How long.

Biden: I don't know how long. Can and will. Facts: Economy was in free fall. Great Recession hit. Lots of bad stuff. Rescued GM. Cut taxes for middle class. Romney said let Detroit go bankrupt. Romney said let foreclosures happen. Says 47% are unwilling to take responsibility for their lives. Ryan said 30% are takers. These people are my mom and dad and neighbors, pay more in income tax than Romney. They are elderly who live in SS. They are veterans and warriors who don't pay taxes. It's about time THEY take responsibility. They should be signing a pledge to level the playing field, give the poor a fair shot again, not have different set of rules, not to hemorrhage tax cuts, $5 billion to a bunch of families. Take responsibility.

Ryan: We're from similar towns. Joe's town has 10% unemployment. 8.5% when he came in. (Biden interrupts.) Yes, they inherited a tought situation. (Biden laughs.) 1.3% growth, slower than last year, getting slower. "We're heading in the wrong direction." 23 million Americans struggling or work. 15% are in poverty. This is not what a real recovery looks like.

5 point plan: energy independence by 2020. Deficit/debt controls. Trade. Champion small businesses. (Biden laughs)

Mitt Romney is a car guy. This is a guy who helped a family he didn't know who suffered a terrible car accident. Took care of college. Mitt doesn't tell these stories. It wasn't cash help. It's his time. Gave 30% to charity, more than the two of us combined. Mitt gives his time.

About that quote "I think the vice-president knows, sometimes the words don't come out of your mouth the right way." (Audience laughs)

Biden: "I always say what I mean." Laughs. The crowd laughs at him.

Ryan: We want to get people out of poverty, help everyone succeed. Self-sufficiency. Opportunity.

Biden: If you think 47% is a mistake, I've got a bridge to sell you. Appreciate ROmnay's service, I know what it's like. I sat in the homes of people who go through what I went through. People want to know you've been through it. I don't doubt Romney's committment to people.

He had no commitment to the auto industry. I've never met two guys more down on America than these two guys. If they'd get out of the way and let us pass the tax cut, make it permanent, if they get out of the way, let us keep people in their homes. Stop talking about how you care, show me a policy, show me a policy where YOU take responsibility.

They talk about the recession where did it come from? Blames the wars, blames the tax cuts. Biden voted against that stuff. Now they care about the debt…

Ryan: Let's not forget that they came in with one-party control. They had the ability to do eeverything of their choosing. :ool at where we are now. THey passed the stimulus, borrowed all that money, spent it, said unemployment would not be above 8%, 4% growth, it's never been there. Mod interrupts. That's what our plan is. VP was supposed to oversee the stimulus spending, it's been wasted. 100 criminal invstigations. Wasted on green energy,.

Biden interrupts, no evidence of croniness. Love our friend —asked for money for companies in Wisconsin.

Ryan defends: Advocating for 2 people asking for grants.

Biden: He said it would create growth and jobs. Congress said it was a model, less than 4/10 of % waste or fraud. Not one single evidence of fraud and corruption.

Ryan" Was it a good idea to buy windmills from China? Was i a good idea to spend China's money?

Bide: Moody's said it was the best thing to do. We've got a better track record than investment banks.

Ryan: Where are the 5 million green jobs?

Moderator moves on to medicare. Will programs have to change for medicare to survive?

Ryan: Absolutely. These programs are going bankrupt. They have to change. I know what these programs did for my family. Helped me go to college. Helped mom go to college, start a small business. She paid her taxes on the promise that these programs would be there.

You can change the program for 54 and younger, guaranteeing it, without changing for 55 and older. Chief actuary of medicare said Obama double-spent $700 billion. 15-person board, making decisions for our medical care. Social security 25% cut kicks in when it goes bankrupt. Biden laughs. They haven't put any credible solution on the table. Guarantee younger people coverage. More coverage for poor and middle class. Les for rich. We want people to decide, rather than 15 person.

Biden: Death panel fro Palin, now here? We saved $716 billion, cut cost of Medicare, stopped overpaying. AMA AARP endorsed what we did. Extended medicare to 2024. Ask seniors: do you have more benefits? You do. You get $800 more medicine. Their plan wipes it out in 2016.

CBO siad it would more for every senior when they got to retirement, but he got all the republicans to vote for it, ROmney would sign it. Believe who? AMA? Me? Or Ryan, who added $6,400 more to medicare?

Now they have a new plan: folks trust us! they say. Their ideas old and bad and eliminate the guarantee of medicare.

Ryan: They got caught hand in cookie jar of Medicare. Their own actuary came to congress say: 1 in 6 will go out of business. 7.4 million Seniors will lose their coverage of $3,200 benefit. Biden interrupts.

Ryan turns to Biden. "Mr. Vice President, I know you're under a lot of duress …" Biden laughs "Hahahaha." "I think the people will be better served if we stop interrupting each other." "Well, don't take all the 4 minutes then!"

Ruan: We're saying Don't change benefits for 55 and above!

Mod interrupts: What about those who can't make up the difference? Voucher?

Ryna: 100% coverage for poor people! Take down subsidies for rich, give to the poor. That $6,400 was misleading, totally incorrect now. This is bipartisan. Biden interrupts "Not one democrat supports the plan." Ryan: "Our friend from Oregon." Biden: "He no longer supports it."

Ryan: We put it together with former Clinton budget director. Biden: disavows it. Ryan: From the Clinton commision to save medicare.

Ryan: If we don't if this problem soon, current seniors will get cut!

Biden: If they allowed medicare to bargain for cost of drugs like medicaid, that would save money. Ryan: Deny them choices. Biden: They are not denied! They are not denied! Have you been denied choices? Ryan: Because it's working right now.

Mod: Why not very slowly raise the retirement age?

Biden: WE did that with SS in 1983. Tip O'Neill, Reagan. If everyone makes a sacrifice, we can make it solvent to 2033. We will NOT be part of any voucher program. Mom! Go shop for coverage! It will not keep pace! If it did keep pace, no savings. We will not privatize social security.

Ryan: Nobody is proposing a voucher. Barack Obama said, "If you don't have any fresh ideas, if you don't have anything to run on, paint your enemy with a broad brush." Let younger Americans have a voluntary choice. That's not what Romney's proposing: old people keep their benefits. For younger people: Don't give rich benefits, raise retirement age slowly.

Biden: Romney plan, many studies say, is you'd get less money. Cutting benefits without taking other actions is absolutely wrong idea. These guys have not been with Medicare, social security from the beginning. Who do you trust? Them who wanted to increase $6,400, or us?

Ryan: That was completely misleading. Biden: That's a fact! Ryan: This is what people do when they don't have a record to run on: Try to scare people. Overtalking. Medicare did so much for my family we are not going to change it.

Biden: You are changing it. Poor people can't afford it.

Ryan: That's why more for lower-income, less for higher-income.

Moderator: Who will pay more in taxes, who will pay less?

Biden: Middle class less. Millionaires slightly more. Continuation of Bush Tax Cuts for wealthy should expire. We see no justification to 120,000 families will get $5 billion in tax relief. We want to extend permanently middle-class tax cut. These guys won't allow us to. We want a vote. They're holding middle-class hostage to the super-wealthy. They want another tax cut of $5 trillion, to give $250,000 to wealthiest, raise taxes on middle class. This is unconscionable. The last thing middle class need is this.

Ryan: Our entire premise of tax cuts is to grow economy and create jobs. We think government taking 28% is enough. Obama wants 44% of small business income. If you taxed every successful person and small business over $250k at 100%, we'd run government for a few days. Their aren't enough rich people to tax to sustain the spending. When they say they will tax the rich, the tax bill ends up as middle lass. Canadians dropped tax rates to 15%, average is 20%, president wants 40%! This tax would tax 53% of small business income, 700,000 jobs. It doesn't even pay for deficit.

We say lower taxes across the board, close off loopholes to rich, lower spending.

This $5 trillion plan I propose? Discredited in multiple studies, even their own campaign manager admits it's not correct.

Moderator: How will you pay for 20% cut? Specifics?

Ryan: We want to be bi-partisan. Look at what Reagan and Tip O'Neill did. We want to work across the aisle, so we only have a framework. Deny the loopholes to rich, lower taxes across the board. (Biden laughs) We want to work with congress. Six studies guarantees the math adds up.

Biden: Let me translate. Reagan gave specifics. 97% of small businesses make less than $250k. What are the others Hedge funds. How sincere are they? Gov. Romney, you pay 14% on $20 million is that fair? Yes, he said. Those guys will cut loopholes? The carried interest loophole, the capital gains loophole. The reason all these studies say they will tax the middle class is to cut the mortgage reduction, college deduction.

Ryan: He is wrong about that. You can cut tax rates by 20% and still preserve the cuts for middle class. Biden: It's never been done before. Ryan: Jack Kennedy did it. Biden: Oh, now you're Jack Kennedy! (Audience laughs.) Ryan: You work with congress, you fill in the details, that's how you get thing done? Biden: The republican congress? You're going to work with them? Ryan: Romney worked across the aisle, and it worked. Biden: If he was so good, why is MA even contested?

Biden: Let tax cuts expires on the millionaires! They do not need the money! Middle class people need the help! Why does he cut the tuition tax credits!

Ryan: Close loopholes on high income people.

Biden: Can you guarantee that you won't close mortgage deduction? 97% of small businesses make less than $250k!

Ryan: The tax taxes a million small businesses who are our greatest job creators.

Mod: Defense budget?

Ryan: We're saying don't cut defense. They propose a $478 billion cut to defense. There is another cut on the horizon. Moderator interrupts.

Biden: $2 trillion dollars.

Ryan: Don't cut it by $2 trillion dollars. If these cuts go through, the navy will be smaller than WWI. Don't impose devastating cuts.

Biden: We don't cut it. That was part of a debt deal they asked for. HE said "We've been looking for this moment for a long time." Ryan: We've been looking for bipartisanship for a long time. Biden: Military doesn't need this stuff. They want a smaller military. Joint chiefs of staff. They made the recommendation first.

Moderator: Afghanistan.

At this point, I am losing interest. It looks like the rest of the country has as well.

Biden goes from laughing to angry. He can't wait his turn. He invents his own strawman, even though his opponent is sitting right there. He lies. I can't stand it anymore.

Ryan has run circles around Biden intellectually. I don't know what he could've done differently to keep Biden in his place.

Update: The internet is making fun of Joe Biden. The one redeeming political factor in his favor was that he was a sincere, nice guy. Now that's gone. He's just a drunk, bitter uncle who can't make sense.